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	<title>Comments on: 1919 Black Sox ineptly throw the World Series</title>
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	<link>http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/2010/09/27/1919-black-sox-ineptly-throw-the-world-series/</link>
	<description>Laughing at other people&#039;s dumbness since 2009</description>
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		<title>By: Darien</title>
		<link>http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/2010/09/27/1919-black-sox-ineptly-throw-the-world-series/comment-page-1/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/?p=511#comment-244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In re: Rose, at the time he committed his EVAL DEEDS, it was in violation of a policy that&#039;s actually posted on the wall in every clubhouse in MLB, along with the clearly stated punishment of &quot;lifetime ban.&quot; So I can&#039;t say I think lifetime ban is really unwarranted, there; he clearly knew what the penalty was for what he did, since, you know, it&#039;s right there on the wall. Which is weird, but... there you are.

As for Jackson, yeah, I&#039;d agree that he&#039;s clearly guilty of something. All I&#039;m taking issue with is the sort of one-size-fits-all punishment that deems Jackson and Cicotte equivalent, when I&#039;d say they clearly committed different crimes.

Pete Rose should not be allowed to manage or coach or (hypothetically) play ever again. I&#039;m willing to state that unequivocally. But the Hall? What&#039;s he going to do, throw Vets Committee votes? For fuck&#039;s sake. It&#039;s not clear to me that he was good enough to be in the Hall -- though many people vastly more intelligent than I say he&#039;s one of the greatest ever, so probably they&#039;re right and I&#039;m wrong -- but you know what? He has the goddamn career hits record. 4256 hits is an admission ticket to the Hall as far as I&#039;m concerned, and keeping him out really just seems petty and spiteful.

Shoeless Joe belongs in the Hall from a performance standpoint (he was worth nearly as many WAR as Rose in a career half the length, for pity&#039;s sake), but, again, it&#039;s harder to admit a dude who clearly was in bed with a plan to fix the World Series. That said, I don&#039;t see what harm it does to put a plaque for him in the Hall (since he was amazing), and clearly state on the plaque that he was forced out in disgrace for his role in the 1919 debacle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In re: Rose, at the time he committed his EVAL DEEDS, it was in violation of a policy that&#8217;s actually posted on the wall in every clubhouse in MLB, along with the clearly stated punishment of &#8220;lifetime ban.&#8221; So I can&#8217;t say I think lifetime ban is really unwarranted, there; he clearly knew what the penalty was for what he did, since, you know, it&#8217;s right there on the wall. Which is weird, but&#8230; there you are.</p>
<p>As for Jackson, yeah, I&#8217;d agree that he&#8217;s clearly guilty of something. All I&#8217;m taking issue with is the sort of one-size-fits-all punishment that deems Jackson and Cicotte equivalent, when I&#8217;d say they clearly committed different crimes.</p>
<p>Pete Rose should not be allowed to manage or coach or (hypothetically) play ever again. I&#8217;m willing to state that unequivocally. But the Hall? What&#8217;s he going to do, throw Vets Committee votes? For fuck&#8217;s sake. It&#8217;s not clear to me that he was good enough to be in the Hall &#8212; though many people vastly more intelligent than I say he&#8217;s one of the greatest ever, so probably they&#8217;re right and I&#8217;m wrong &#8212; but you know what? He has the goddamn career hits record. 4256 hits is an admission ticket to the Hall as far as I&#8217;m concerned, and keeping him out really just seems petty and spiteful.</p>
<p>Shoeless Joe belongs in the Hall from a performance standpoint (he was worth nearly as many WAR as Rose in a career half the length, for pity&#8217;s sake), but, again, it&#8217;s harder to admit a dude who clearly was in bed with a plan to fix the World Series. That said, I don&#8217;t see what harm it does to put a plaque for him in the Hall (since he was amazing), and clearly state on the plaque that he was forced out in disgrace for his role in the 1919 debacle.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/2010/09/27/1919-black-sox-ineptly-throw-the-world-series/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 03:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/?p=511#comment-238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe Jackson, in his own grand jury testimony, admitted to not trying his hardest in the field, although he made no deliberate errors.  Later, of course, he recanted everything.

Mainly I object to the people who paint Joe Jackson as some witless rube who happened to be a baseball savant--as if he not only didn&#039;t participate in the fix, he didn&#039;t actually know anything about it or didn&#039;t &quot;understand&quot; what was going on, despite being paid off and sitting in on multiple meetings with gamblers discussing the fix.  

If nothing else Jackson and Weaver are guilty of knowing about a crime in progress and not doing anything about it.  Whether or not that deserves a lifetime ban from the game isn&#039;t really for me to decide, but I believe Pete Rose got the same punishment for less--I&#039;m not aware of any evidence that Rose ever attempted to throw any games, although betting against his own team is at least heavy incentive to do so.  And although I believe Rose ought to be in the Hall of Fame (that&#039;s really a completely different issue to me) I&#039;m not convinced he should be allowed to manage or coach ever again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Jackson, in his own grand jury testimony, admitted to not trying his hardest in the field, although he made no deliberate errors.  Later, of course, he recanted everything.</p>
<p>Mainly I object to the people who paint Joe Jackson as some witless rube who happened to be a baseball savant&#8211;as if he not only didn&#8217;t participate in the fix, he didn&#8217;t actually know anything about it or didn&#8217;t &#8220;understand&#8221; what was going on, despite being paid off and sitting in on multiple meetings with gamblers discussing the fix.  </p>
<p>If nothing else Jackson and Weaver are guilty of knowing about a crime in progress and not doing anything about it.  Whether or not that deserves a lifetime ban from the game isn&#8217;t really for me to decide, but I believe Pete Rose got the same punishment for less&#8211;I&#8217;m not aware of any evidence that Rose ever attempted to throw any games, although betting against his own team is at least heavy incentive to do so.  And although I believe Rose ought to be in the Hall of Fame (that&#8217;s really a completely different issue to me) I&#8217;m not convinced he should be allowed to manage or coach ever again.</p>
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		<title>By: Darien</title>
		<link>http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/2010/09/27/1919-black-sox-ineptly-throw-the-world-series/comment-page-1/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 00:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holyfuckingshityouredumb.com/?p=511#comment-236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;All the crimes that land you a lifetime ban from baseball&quot; are pretty much limited to &quot;being on the 1919 White Sox&quot; and &quot;being Pete Rose.&quot; But, yeah, I&#039;ll agree that the former is the more serious of the two crimes, since, you know, fuck the White Sux.

Anyhoo, you seen Joseph Jefferson Jackson&#039;s line for that series? It goes a little something like this: .375 / .394 / .563 / .956. And, as you can see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=jacksjo01&amp;t=b&amp;post=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (aside: holy shit baseball record-keeping is amazing), it wasn&#039;t a case of throwing the bad games and winning the good ones. He was legitimately awesome the whole series, except for the very first game. He clearly wasn&#039;t trying too damn hard to throw anything. He doubled in his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN191910020.shtml#play_by_play&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very first PA&lt;/a&gt; (aside: seriously, holy shit) in game 2, and didn&#039;t look back. Now, I&#039;m no Black Sux apologist (lord knows), but the evidence that Shoeless Joe actually tried to throw the Series is pretty faint. And should it be a permabannable offence to take money from gamblers and then fuck them over? I dunno. Maybe he should have raised the alarm earlier -- though, as you say, talking to Comiskey was pointless -- but it&#039;s still difficult for me to lump Jackson together with the likes of Eddie Ciccote. Their crimes do seem different to me.

That said, yours is possibly the first write-up of the event that I&#039;ve read that didn&#039;t blame it all on Eddie Ciccotte.

And the point, to be sure: fuck A-Fraud.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All the crimes that land you a lifetime ban from baseball&#8221; are pretty much limited to &#8220;being on the 1919 White Sox&#8221; and &#8220;being Pete Rose.&#8221; But, yeah, I&#8217;ll agree that the former is the more serious of the two crimes, since, you know, fuck the White Sux.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, you seen Joseph Jefferson Jackson&#8217;s line for that series? It goes a little something like this: .375 / .394 / .563 / .956. And, as you can see <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=jacksjo01&amp;t=b&amp;post=1" rel="nofollow">here</a> (aside: holy shit baseball record-keeping is amazing), it wasn&#8217;t a case of throwing the bad games and winning the good ones. He was legitimately awesome the whole series, except for the very first game. He clearly wasn&#8217;t trying too damn hard to throw anything. He doubled in his <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN191910020.shtml#play_by_play" rel="nofollow">very first PA</a> (aside: seriously, holy shit) in game 2, and didn&#8217;t look back. Now, I&#8217;m no Black Sux apologist (lord knows), but the evidence that Shoeless Joe actually tried to throw the Series is pretty faint. And should it be a permabannable offence to take money from gamblers and then fuck them over? I dunno. Maybe he should have raised the alarm earlier &#8212; though, as you say, talking to Comiskey was pointless &#8212; but it&#8217;s still difficult for me to lump Jackson together with the likes of Eddie Ciccote. Their crimes do seem different to me.</p>
<p>That said, yours is possibly the first write-up of the event that I&#8217;ve read that didn&#8217;t blame it all on Eddie Ciccotte.</p>
<p>And the point, to be sure: fuck A-Fraud.</p>
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